TOPIC: New change in Coc rule #2
POSTED BY: Zzck
POSTED ON: Jun 16, 06:33:01 PM
VIEWS: 446

Hello everyone,

In short, with the new change in CoC rule #2, I am unable to use any in-game chat and without the chat, Titan Conquest basically becomes a single-player game since it's mainly how we interact with other players.

I understand the need for a better anti-cheating measure and all staff are putting in lots of effort for us all to have a better TC experience. But I think this new change is problematic as it makes lives of many active and helpful players harder.

Thanks for taking the time to read and I'll be looking forward to see what you all think,
Zzck
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Details:

Most non-US players (and even US players if they're far from the server location) have to use Puffin browser on mobile to grind effectively. Among these Puffin users, most players who are also active in the chat use their PC for the chat feature. This new change either completely disables or makes it extremely uncomfortable for these players to use any in-game chat.

I personally open Puffin, align the long-tap menu's "Copy link of address", first mob, primary attack, and Go Back to Patrol buttons then battle tapping there. I have recorded my screen for you to see how tedious this process and how laggy Puffin browser is.

Here is the video > https://streamable.com/dh68zi

As most of you already know, I check the chat all day and try to be as helpful as possible. I also enjoy talking to my friends here. But with this new change, it is impossible to actively check the chat because;
-On mobile view, it is not possible to battle and see the chat at the same time.
-On desktop mode, as in the video, even if the chat is visible on the same page while battling, having to zoom in still hides the chat.
-If zoomed in and scrolled to the right to have both chat and attack buttons visible, it is not possible to see which mob we're fighting (This is important since we may be battling a sacred companion thousands of times for nothing) or if the subclass ability is up for titans, etc.
-Even if somehow a solution is found (which I don't think is possible) to see both the chat and the battle, typing on Puffin is so painful. It is laggy. If you type fast it types the letters in the wrong order. When you mistyped something, going back to edit a word is so annoying. So the only realistic way to type on Mobile is switching to TC App and writing there. But if I switch to another app, Puffin resets itself and I have to go through the process in the video all over again.

Without the chat feature, Titan Conquest loses most of its attraction for me and many others. It becomes mostly a single-player game with almost no way to interact with other players. The change in CoC rule #2 causes this to happen to so many people who play the game a lot and actively use the chat feature. I think it will damage the TC community severely and should be canceled.


Replies
[Jun 16, 06:35:47 PM] Dkiller790 says:
I second this view


[Jun 16, 06:37:04 PM] OracleOfRats says:
I agree... the chat has been noticeably more dead since :(


[Jun 16, 06:38:01 PM] Zurs says:
Agree that the community chat is an indispensable part of the game. Puffin allignment is not that great so having to keep alligning it every once in a while is really tedious.

And more importantly chat has been really quiet compared to how it was before :(

Hope there can be an alternate way to do this


[Jun 16, 06:52:55 PM] Cloud says:
Then stop battling to chat easy solution. Chat seems fine to me atm.


[Jun 16, 07:08:17 PM] Shred says:
Hi,

Okay.

I have used both puffin and mobile nearly exclusively for my entire playtime. Whatever you think of me, I've played a fair bit, I think it's safe to say. I think you overestimate how many people use a secondary device. Even if many do, I'm sure many don't. Regardless, I could just say "I don't do this, so many people don't." It's no less fair or statistically accurate than your argument.

Your choice of aligning chat and the battle interface is just that, a choice. I never did that. If chat was yellow, I stopped and made the choice to stop clicking, and chat. You also have that choice. I'm pointing this out because I was WC, am VG, and so when playing keeping an eye on chat is basically part of the job role. You make a choice.

If you only have one device, you have no choice.

Puffin used to do the garbled text thing. I have not personally experienced this for some time. Are you using an outdated version?

You are being asked to stop clicking to chat, and do both in one instance. That is all. Many games are this way, and I don't think it's an unreasonable request. If you need hands to type, stopping clicking is naturally what you would do.

As Kuja said. Stop battling to chat. Like a human being. Some games out there don't even allow multiple instances open at all (logs you out of the previous instance automatically if you try logging in again).

I don't think this is anywhere near the big deal you say it is. Speaking as someone -in- your position. If this change causes you to never chat at all, I wonder how so many people were able to chat and click simultaneously in the first place.


[Jun 16, 07:29:46 PM] Funk says:
I don’t play on my phone that often. But when I do, I do the same as Shred. I battle and open the chat when it turns yellow. That works fine for me, but I’m mostly on my pc.

I think there’s plenty of solutions for your problem, I hope that you can find one that works well for you.

The Vanguards are accommodating to players but sometimes the integrity of the game is at stake and rules needs to be changed.

Good luck, Zack!


[Jun 16, 07:41:47 PM] Snebbers says:
Your video sucks, you did a worst case scenario on purpose, it's literally not that bad at all, I streamed to maybe 5 or 6 people how you can play absolutely fine, I think you're just stupid. You're also overreacting.


[Jun 16, 07:45:22 PM] Funk says:
And also, I agree with chat being more dead. But I don’t think it’s for this reason.

We have lost so many veteran players, some quit permanently and some are taking a break from this game.

Last year, it was hard to even be noticed as a new player because of the permanent conversation between veteran players in global chat. Now it’s easier to chat, make friends, help people and to ask for help. But it’s sad to see so many veteran players gone, even though it’s natural when the game is becoming less attractive for people.

I hope we can get a nice event or update soon, because that will bring the chatty people back!


[Jun 16, 07:58:44 PM] Facko says:
I don’t do the align buttons thing, but I do use puffin and switch to the app to chat because puffin is clunky. If I have to close out the puffin instance first, and then renavigate to where I was battling in puffin each time I type, I will likely type less due to the added friction. It’s not a complaint, just a fact. I think it is reasonable to assume that others’ behavior may be affected similarly. I also think it is reasonable for players such as zzck to be concerned about any negative effects on chat since the community is purportedly one of the biggest selling points of this game, and it’s worth discussing those negative effects and how they might be addressed.Lastly, IMO, name calling is different than discussion and there’s no need or place for it here.


[Jun 16, 08:01:27 PM] Bhelogan says:
I'm not a puffin user (my home connection battles faster than puffin's streamed experience), so I don't feel all your pain.

But let me point out a major reason for this rule. We have players who are capable of maintaining a high and constant battle per second for long periods of time. And, you can tell when they stop to chat, because those battles slow down.

Then, we have players who do that AND are chatting all the time, without their battles slowing down. Perfectly formatted, good grammar sentences, that take time and thought to do with two hands typing. (Sometimes we even see them active and chatting on other games or Discord at the exact same time)

Voice to text can't do that. So, we have to conclude that the battles are being done with some type of automation, and they are just chatting on another device where they are present.

So, to combat the bad apples, we have the requirement that you are only chatting and battling in one instance of the game at once. Yes, it will make your battles slower, to be chatting with the community. That is the normal and intended way to play the game, and was implicit in CoC #2 before the change. We have allowed enough edge cases to that, that some clarification on what is and isn't allowed was needed.

It is an attempt to keep things fair for all players and provide a similar experience, regardless of how many devices you may or may not have available, and help the VGs ensure that people who are playing are doing so legitimately.


[Jun 16, 08:08:01 PM] Facko says:
Bhelogan: serious question, based on what you said, doesn’t the old rule make it easier to detect automation, since you could see the people who type perfectly while battling at the same speed? Under the new rule, won’t the same people cheat, but now there’s one less way to detect them since we lose the simultaneous chat indicator?


[Jun 16, 08:09:39 PM] Alvonia says:
I agree. I support you on this. Thank you for voicing out your opinion and sharing it with the TC community. Hope everyone can meet in the middle. :)

To add: I‘ve read some of the comments/replies and I don’t think name calling is necessary to send your point across. Players should be free to share what they think about the game, if you don’t respect their point of view, then just don’t say anything at all. I just find it very disrespectful to call anyone names, and profoundly offensive. That’s truly immature.


[Jun 16, 08:49:42 PM] Snebbers says:
Take as much high ground as you want, your point is easily dealt with and I don't care much for how you guys see it.

I'll always be blunt, nothing will change that. But genuinely if you think you've managed to say something well thought out to try and combat this change, you really haven't.

You constantly refuse to acknowledge the implications of why this change was made. So you must be exactly what I have said prior. Realistically, your opinion of me doesn't matter to me at all.


[Jun 16, 08:50:03 PM] Shred says:
@Facko several people, including yourself, were unhappy with the lack of clarity on the CoC. Now it is stating what you can and cannot do.

Better for us to enforce under these conditions, no?


[Jun 16, 08:54:15 PM] Cloud says:
You guys are acting like we are doing this to spite you all for chatting. All we are asking is to not do both at the same time have a second instance open to read the chat but only chat and battle on one. Idk why its that big of a deal ive used puffin its not as bad as you make it out to be.


[Jun 16, 08:54:38 PM] Bhelogan says:
@ Facko - no, it won't make a difference in how we detect them.


[Jun 16, 09:05:10 PM] Facko says:
Sneb: I did acknowledge the reason for the change—see comment to bhelogan

Bhel: thank you for your reply and for treating people with respect generally. It is truly truly appreciated, and not just in this thread.

Shred: I agree that having a clear rule is better than a vague rule enforced opaquely.

All: I’m not sure why this post is met with such hostility honestly. Seems unnecessary. We’re all just trying to better understand the reason for the change, the implications to individual players and the community, and if there is any alternative. Not so crazy really.


[Jun 16, 09:07:07 PM] Shred says:
Do you feel no one else here is?


[Jun 16, 09:17:11 PM] Facko says:
Well, you told zzck to act like a “human being”, and sneb called him stupid. Then sneb doubled down and called everyone who disagreed with him stupid and said that our opinions don’t matter to him. I mean it’s not a masterclass on respectful conversation lol


[Jun 16, 09:20:46 PM] Shred says:
As opposed to an automaton. Which is precisely what talking and clicking simultaneously flawlessly suggests.

NB: that's not directly at Zzck, but in general as part of the conversation in general rather than the individual saying it.

It was not an insult.


[Jun 16, 09:23:17 PM] Forcepath says:
I'd like to take the time to mirror Bhelogan's comments, that the goal of these changes is to help both moderators and players have extremely clear expectations for how we deal with certain gameplay situations, and to ensure a fair and even playing field for all players.

I agree that the mobile UI definitely isn't great for chatting, but this is the tradeoff to having TC be a mobile game. Unfortunately, the VG's do not have any direct ability to change how the UI works beyond how it iis today, and our goal is to work within the confines of the current setup and help make sure expectations are clear.

While I have concerns about chat and the community at large, I have found that players who want to invest in the community will spend more time chatting than battling, and understand the cost/benefit to that. This is no-different than any other game that has a chat function, and I don't see any reason that those things shouldn't apply here as well.

I appreciate your feedback, and wonder if part of the issue is the unique use-case you've made for yourself with how you setup to play? Obviously, everyone can do and play how they see fit (within the confines of the CoC), but your situation is a very edge-case scenario that can't really be planned for. I'm open to suggestions on how you think we could better handle what issues you've discussed.

Ultimately, we want people to play the game and not cheat. The goal here was to have a much clearer set of rules to meet that goal.


[Jun 16, 09:23:51 PM] Funk says:
I appreciate that this is a big deal for you, otherwise you would not have made this topic.

If the goal is to understand why this change was necessary, read what Bhelogan wrote. If it still is unclear, then ask questions to fill in the blanks.

@Facko, you are entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else.


[Jun 16, 09:54:39 PM] Facko says:
Shred: fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

Forcepath: thank you.

F: I agree. I did ask a clarifying question to bhel, which he responded to.


[Jun 17, 08:38:12 PM] Zzck says:
First of all, even though I see that most of you are already aware of that, I want to clarify something. My goal here is not to cause trouble or make this change look like a huge issue. As a player, I just wanted to let the moderation know about a problem I am having and asked for this change to be reconsidered if possible. Since the topic is CoC, which is the most sensitive one in TC, I am trying to choose every single one of my words very carefully and I trust you all not to misunderstand my intentions.

With that out of the way, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to explain why the change has been made. Looks like the new rule will be kept and we will have to adjust our playstyles accordingly. To do that, I need some help from both Vanguards and other experienced players. I will first list the situations PC is useful (I already asked about some of those via PMs but will include those too for other players) and then questions about them.

Situations PC is useful are;
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Situation #1 > Sending PMs, checking leaderboards(especially during CC), checking Wiki, switching gear loadouts, inventory stuff, decoding, etc.

Question for #1 > Which of the activities listed above, if any, can be done on a separate instance while logged into/battling on a different one?
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Situation #2 > Hunting chests, sacred companions, bounties (Basically any gameplay feature that is not spamming battles/kills)

Questions for #2 > These already cannot be done by using multiple devices at the same time but they require a "switch between devices".
------#2a) Can we close Puffin on mobile and immediately switch to PC to do these?
------#2b) Is there a minimum time we should wait before switching? (I asked about this earlier via PM and was told that 3 minutes will be safe but I think it is too long. Can we make it 30 seconds or at least 1 minute?)
------#2c) If there is a minimum time before switching, is it only for switches between devices? Or does it also apply to "switches on the same device" -such as Puffin to App on mobile, or Bluestacks Puffin to Chrome on PC-?
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Situation #3 > Reading and writing to chat -which is our main focus in this thread-.

Question for #3 > Can chat be read on a separate instance while logged into/battling on a different one? For writing to chat, do answers to Situation #2 apply?
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So in short, I believe clarification of "switches between devices" and "switches between different browsers/TC app on the same device" will solve everything.

For now, I will look for solutions to squeeze all activities into PC such as doing everything on Bluestacks Puffin or PC version of Puffin. I really hope one of those will work.

Thank you all for the answers in advance!


[Jul 19, 04:24:45 AM] Kachina says:
Hey all,

Not sure if we're allowed to bump older threads, but this is my first time discovering the forum.

Anyways, I just found out about this rule while reading this thread. I'd been chatting on PC occasionally while tapping on my phone (which I will now stop as I see it's not allowed), but I agree that this will likely cut down on the amount of chat going on in the sidebar as well.

I find it MUCH easier to type on a PC vs. mobile, but mobile battles are both faster, and less intensive on the fingers for me.

I'm not sure if there's another way to do it other than a self-imposed *wait three seconds after battling to start typing on other device*, but it seems like this new rule will have a detrimental effect on the community.